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 A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 11, 2008 at 10:43 PM |
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magic147258
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I had emailed this trick to Tim and he wanted me to post it here to discuss it more. Here is the trick.
I had an idea for a trick (i know the
concept is not new) and am wondering if you can tell me what you
think (and if the handling already exists)
Effect: you explain to the audience that you are going to transfer
your psychic powers to an audience member. you ask if anyone wants
to be able to see into the future. You ask a spectator to come up
and give the cards a cut. they cut the cards and the card they cut
to is the prediction. you ask them to take a pen and piece of paper
and write down "their" prediction and then fold it up and put it on
the table. as they do that you give the deck a casual shuffle and
ask for another spectator to come up. then the "performer" asks the
spectator to cut the cards twice and take the card they cut to. the
"performer" asks the spectator what card he or she picked, spectator
names the card and the "performer" opens the prediction to show that
he or she had correctly predicted the card.
Explanation: When the "Performer" (spectator #1) comes up, and gives
the cards a cut. whatever card they cut to, have them write it down
as a prediction. While doing that you take the two halves and do a
false shuffle keeping their prediction on top. You then set the deck
down and get a second spectator and have him or her come up. you
then give the "performer" the instructions to instruct the spectator
(spectator #2) to preform the cut deeper force. Of course you are
doing this one step at a time. Finally the spectator takes the card
they cut to (the prediction) and it matches what the "performer"
wrote down.
Tim replied:
The only way I see to improve it would be to dirty
up the first selection process.
People may think, why is it so complicated
for the 2nd spectator to select a card when it was
so simple for the 1st spectator to select a card?
The selection processes should be as identical
as possible. If that isnt possible, then youll
have to find some reason in your patter (Now
since youre a beginning magician, lets have
spectator #2 do it a little different than I had
you do it)
Tim i thank you for your feed back and would like to continue the discussion with the members of the forum.
Thanks.
Last edited on Dec 11, 2008 at 11:00 PM by magic147258.
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 12, 2008 at 10:06 AM |
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timdavid
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Thanks for being willing to share this idea, Sean.
Here are some of my other ideas for this...
- On one of the tutorials on this site, I teach a trick where you force multiple spectators the same card using the slip force. This is a similar idea, but with a different plot that takes the cards OUT of the magician's hands - which is always nice.
- This one is probably the best idea...
1. Have the first spectator cut to any card (no force)
2. Then pick up the deck and have him return the card to the deck. As you do this, crimp the selected card. REALLY crimp it.
3. THEN, give the 1st spectator the deck and allow him/her to shuffle away.
4. Then instruct the 1st spectator to give the deck a few cuts (until you can see that the crimped card is about in the center)
5. Now have the 1st spectator tell the 2nd spectator what to do... "Tell him to quickly cut the deck somewhere towads the middle."
Odds are, when someone cuts the deck quickly, they end up cutting to the crimped or bent card. Not always, but very often.
I REALLY like this idea Sean, and I'm glad you were willing to start this brainstorming session.
The above handling is very hands-off and as I'm typing, I'm still getting ideas.
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 12, 2008 at 10:19 AM |
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timdavid
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No let's start brainstorming a presentation we can all use:
Here's the basic plot, let's see if this gives anyone any good ideas...
Talk about people who go under cover. Undercover cops, sting operations, drug busts, etc. Say you're going to do something like that on stage right now. This should get everyone's attention.
Invite someone on stage who wants to go "under cover". Tell them that you're going to have them wear a wire so that you (you'll be the commanding officer, or whatever) can hear them AND talk to them through a wireless earpiece.
Bring out a deck of cards and start a quick training session and show them what they're going to do. (This is basically the first selection). Have them select a card and pretend that the value of the card is inconsequential. It's just part of the training. Of course, you'll want to crimp the selection secretly. There's no heat here so this should be a piece of cake.
Go to the side of the stage (find a darkened area if you can) with a microphone and talk to spectator #1. It will be as if you were talking to him through the "earpiece", but everyone will be able to hear. This is a GREAT opportunity for some comedy.
Talk him through the second selection process and ham it up!
This presentation REALLY enforces the idea that the cards are out of your hands. In fact, it's almost like you're out of the room!
Now here's where I need YOUR ideas...
- What does the selected card represent? Is it part of a crime that you're investigating? Evidence? A murder weapon?
- What is the reason for the sting operation? Drugs? Crime? Spying on a celebrity to get a juicy story?
- What happens when it is discovered that the 2 selections match? Does the swat team storm in?
I'm excited to see what you come up with.
Let's brainstorm!
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 12, 2008 at 3:25 PM |
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Hakuzosu
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As far as I know, no tricks with this method have been published like this. There is a mentioning of Tim's way of doing it in The Expert at the Card Table, though it's not applied to a trick, and shouldn't be a problem.
One thing I might add to the technical part of it is to allow the spectator who is performing the trick to name the first card that pops into their head. You could then use the spread cull to move their card to the top while saying something like "there's no way I could've known previously that you would name that card, correct?" this will allow you to shuffle the deck without as much suspicion that you know where the card is in the deck. Then I would proceed as Tim does in his trick.
Presentationally, I wouldn't claim you have psychic powers, as that often results in people challenging you to name what card they are thinking of, or something similar.
I like Tim's premise for the patter. I might base it off of DNA testing during a crime scene, where they're trying to find matches with suspects.
I definitely think it could be a good effect, though it needs a little work.
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"To those who question whether clarity is all that important, I can only say that it is the most important quality in the making of a film" - François Truffaut
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 12, 2008 at 5:36 PM |
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adamomagus
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I definitely like the outline for this. It seems to me that this should be used for a mentalist as opposed to a card magician slipping this into their act. Anyways, if you're looking for humor, I like both Hakuzosu's idea and Tim's idea. However, for a serious effect, you need to act and talk differently. You could even dim the lights.
One idea of this is (for a serious setting) is to perform the trick but have the spectator transmit thoughts to you while both of your hold a copper wire while sitting down on two chairs about 5 - 10 feet apart.
I agree with Hakuzosu, you shouldn't try to claim to have supernatural powers, as you will lead yourself into a hole that you can't dig out of. People will constantly challenge you to "read their mind" or something similar, and this you obviously cannot do impromptu (in most cases).
For the humorist, the FBI/Police routine works out quite well.
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." -Abraham Lincoln
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 12, 2008 at 6:38 PM |
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magic147258
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First off, thanks for the comments guys. Some great ideas.
A couple of things:
1) I feel this trick would be good in the middle of a routine. Do not use it as an opener or a closer.
2) In the beginning of the whole routine i will state that i don't have psychic powers and that i use my five known senses to create the illusion of a 6th sense. (i first heard this line from Banacheck and i know many performers do use a similar line.)
3) I don't like the idea of naming a card and then culling it because i don't want the audience to know what the prediction is. Whenever we make a prediction, we never say what the prediction is. This is why i enjoy the cut so the only person that does know is the "performer" (even i don''t know what it is, which i think adds to it)
I do like the FBI idea. I think it would be great if we can come up with patter for this idea.
I agree that there are many ways to go with this handling and that's one thing i love about it. I am enjoying the different ideas we are coming up with and hope we can continue the discussion.
Again thanks everyone and lets keep up the discussion
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 12, 2008 at 8:40 PM |
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Hakuzosu
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Hm... It's sounds to me like you basically want it to happen in the most hands off way possible. The only thing is that you'd need to hold is for a second if you wanted to crimp the card.
I personally would use the crimping method rather than the forcing method, though if you want something that's surefire, you might still want to use a force. That's something that you'll have to decide for yourself though... If you end up using a force, I would use the crisscross force rather than the cut deeper force, as you could use a time delay to your advantage while you explained the premise of the effect, which would most likely deceive more people.
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"To those who question whether clarity is all that important, I can only say that it is the most important quality in the making of a film" - François Truffaut
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 13, 2008 at 4:03 AM |
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magic147258
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the one downside to using the cross cut force is i would most likely have to help with the handling of the force. what i love about the cut deeper force is it is totally out of my hand.
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 13, 2008 at 8:37 AM |
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adamomagus
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Well I guess here it comes into the performer's style. Magic147258 obviously wants something very "hands off". For his routine, it really to me seems that the performer's style comes in. So, Magic147258 should use the cut deeper force or something like that to his advantage. For performers like Hakuzosu, the crimp seems like their preferred method. All style.
I do have to agree partly with Hakuzosu; that the criss-cut force could be used to a great effect with the time delay. So much, in fact, that you could tell them to do it, and possibly make them forget all about it. Try it out on family and see how both methods work.
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"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." -Abraham Lincoln
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 16, 2008 at 3:55 PM |
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magic147258
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I do like the idea of completely hands off. I'm wondering if anyone knows of any other self working forces that can be done completely out of the hands (besides the cross cut force). Thanks guys for all the ideas and lets keep up the comversation
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 16, 2008 at 10:10 PM |
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Hakuzosu
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The only force that's self-working other than the cut deeper and crisscross forces is a mathematical force that's painfully obvious (and you're going to want to cater to the spectators with the highest level of intelligence as well as those who are less mathematically savvy).
May I ask why it is you don't want to use the crisscross force? I think it would work great in your trick. Or am I wrongfully thinking that you don't want to use it?
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"To those who question whether clarity is all that important, I can only say that it is the most important quality in the making of a film" - François Truffaut
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 17, 2008 at 5:02 AM |
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magic147258
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I don't want to use the cross cut force because i don't trust the "performer" in handling the cross cut force and possibly having either spectator saying something like "that's the wrong half". Also i don't want to have to come up for a reason for the time misdicrection. with the cut deeper force, i have no worry in either spectator screwing up the force
Last edited on Dec 17, 2008 at 5:31 AM by magic147258.
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Dec 17, 2008 at 2:02 PM |
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Hakuzosu
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While neither the crisscross or the cut deeper force are perfect, I would say the crisscross force fits better into your effect (it's much more deceptive in my experience than the cut deeper force if you have proper time misdirection) since your effect has the perfect place for time misdirection. If you explain the premise of the trick right after the first part of the crisscross force, it would work very nicely.
Also, contrary to many magician's beliefs, there are varying degrees of conviction. I would argue that the crisscross force has a higher degree of deception in the eyes of a spectator since it creates the illusion of the spectator cutting to any point in the deck, rather than the cut deeper force which doesn't seem to be either the magician's, or the spectator's choice (which is a disadvantage).
Finally, I would say that it's just as likely for the spectator to mess up the cut deeper force as it is for the crisscross force.
It's your choice, though in my opinion it's better in this case to use the crisscross force.
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"To those who question whether clarity is all that important, I can only say that it is the most important quality in the making of a film" - François Truffaut
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| Re: A handling i believe i came up with for an effect |
| Posted On Feb 19, 2009 at 9:18 AM |
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gurusharan
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Well I am on the side of the crisscross method. But if you prefer a safer one you should know that the effect of the trick will be reduced greatly.
I just suggest one method which I have not tried so far in any show but with my family. It might not be effective as it is too simple a force trick, but I believe that if done with correct routine it might be effective...
The first choice is made by asking the Spec #1 ("performer" to count a specific number of cards placing them face down.
Then the rest of the pack is placed above and now the top card is noted as the prediction. (this is done to make the first selection somewhat similar to that of the second).
A false shuffle can be made. (only if your not too particular to perform it out of hands).
Then the second spectator is called up and is asked to shuffle the pack in the following manner:
- A cut is made and the spec #2 is asked to choose a number and deal that much of cards on the remaining cards from the cut pack.
- The cut pack is then placed to the right of the other pack (where the cards where dealt).
- Now the pack with dealt cards is placed over the pack to the right.
This I hope would really work as a "shuffle" to the spectators if asked to do in proper speed.
Then the spec #2 is made to count the same number of cards (this part can be dramatised as if you arrived on that number only by chance).
The card is then shown to all and the prediction is revealed.
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Magic Is An Art... Let's Exhibit It...
Yours Magically,
Gurusharan.
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